Bill Mark hails from New Zealand, where he grew up skiing on the North Island before going to work in the industry on the South Island. His career brought him to Canada, where he worked on the Whistler Blackcomb ski patrol. In 1999, he began guiding at Mike Wiegele Heli Skiing, and he is now the Assistant Director of Ski Operations and Senior Lead Heli-Ski Guide. He was on the Board of the CAA from 1997 to 2003 and was President from 2000 until his term ended. He has also been an ITP instructor for 30 years and taught countless courses in that time. We spoke to him for the CAA History Project on May 25, 2023.
My name is Alex Cooper and I’m here on behalf of the Canadian Avalanche Association’s Oral History Project. For the CAA’s 40th birthday we are speaking with former Association Board Members, staff, particularly Past-presidents, to help preserve the CAA’s rich history through the eyes of those that worked to make the CAA a world leader in avalanche safety and professionalism.
Today, May 25, 2023, I am joined by Bill Mark. Bill Mark was a ski patroller at Whistler back in the day, he’s been a guide for Mike Wiegele Heli Skiing for over two decades and was on the CAA’s Board from 1997 to 2003 and was President from 2000 to 2003.
Thank you very much for joining me, Bill.
Bill Mark: You’re welcome.
What do you recall your first experience, or your encounter with the phenomenon of avalanches?
Interestingly enough, coming from New Zealand, I was a young teenager at Ruapehu on the North Island, on the volcano. I was a member of the ski club there, and I remember attending a very, very basic avalanche course. That would have been in the late-70s or early-80s. It was pretty basic but that was the beginning of what got me into the ski patrol and avalanche safety part of the world.
So, you are originally from New Zealand. What part?
Originally brought up in the North part and then worked in the South Island for many years in the Wanaka area as a ski patrol. Primarily in New Zealand, and then started coming over to Canada in the late-80s and worked kind of continuous winters for many years—ski patrolling in New Zealand at Cardrona and ski patrolling at Blackcomb for quite a few years before l switched over to the guiding scene.
As a kid how did you get into skiing?
My mom took us skiing when I was 10 or 11 years old, and we went to Mount Ruapehu or Whakapaka, and we went for five days a year, and the weather was often terrible. Some years, we skied only for a few days because the whole mountain was closed, but I still got hooked on skiing.
Then when I went to university. I had the opportunity to ski cheaply and pretty much every weekend I went skiing when I was at university. So, I kind of got hooked on that. I started ski patrolling a bit when I was at university as well.
You mentioned an avalanche course you took when you were a teenager, pretty young. Do you remember that course and what you were taught?
Not too much. It was very, very basic. It was more of a mountain safety course, and then the avalanche was just a small component of that. As I got more experience and started doing some ski patrol courses in the South Island, that’s when I started getting hooked on the whole avalanche phenomena.
What drew you into ski patrolling?
There was an opportunity to ski and I liked the whole kind of safety aspect of it. I liked being in the mountains and helping people as well. It was a good way to get into it, and I ended up doing a lot of ski patrolling in a relatively short amount of time, in both North America and New Zealand.
When did you come over to Whistler Blackcomb for the first time?
I was wet behind the ears Kiwi and arrived in Vancouver in 1987. Then I came to Whistler, and I hadn’t actually heard of Whistler at the time. When I was coming from New Zealand, it was all about Banff and places like that. I arrived in Whistler and my eyes lit up—it was a pretty amazing place. It took me awhile to get a job and a visa, but I did in late-December, 1987. I finally got a job and started patrolling then and got stuck in the industry for basically all of my career, so it was a unique opportunity.
For sure. Just reading through your profile, I see you have a degree in Parks, Recreation and Wilderness Management. Was that something you were pursuing before you got into the avalanche world?
I trained as a park ranger in New Zealand and did a parks and recreation, a park ranger option, so that’s what got me into the backcountry. I did spend a few summers working as a ranger, and working in national parks in New Zealand for quite a few years. So, the backcountry was part of my whole career. It was a side career. I started working continuously in the winter, so that kind of ended that. Falling by the wayside, much to my parent’s chagrin!
In New Zealand, were you doing winter backcountry skiing or just at resorts?
Working primarily in resorts, but I did a bunch of backcountry skiing, ski touring in New Zealand while I was in university and also while I was ski patrolling as well. Mostly around the Wanaka area and Mount Cook and some other areas as well.
Do you have any good stories from those days? Getting into this whole backcountry skiing activity?
Well, the first job that I ever got as a ski patroller, we had a huge avalanche that actually closed the ski area I was working at. That was kind of the start, not a very illustrious part of my career.
I got a job at a ski area called Ohau and we had—strangely enough, unusual for New Zealand—a surface hoar problem. I was 50% of the ski patrol and I didn’t really know very much. The ski area was closed for three days and there was nobody on the ski area, because the road was closed. We arrived back at the ski area and a natural avalanche had run and taken out the only two lifts on the ski area. So that was the end of that job. I had to go find a new ski patrol job, which I did. That, in a lot of ways got me even more interested in avalanches and learning more about them.
You mentioned you were half of the ski patrol. Was there an avalanche program at this place or was it…
There was an avalanche program, but I was very inexperienced. I had a blasting ticket and that’s about it. I had a really basic avalanche course, but that’s about it. So, it was pretty basic. That’s one of the challenges of the programs in New Zealand. Small ski areas there, they struggle to have good people working at these places with good experience, because the season is so short. It’s an ongoing challenge in New Zealand, for sure.
Yes, no doubt. You mentioned training. Was there any sort of professional avalanche training in New Zealand when you were getting started?
Well, what happened is that Peter Schaerer came over to New Zealand and brought the Canadian program to New Zealand. The New Zealand Avalanche Program is clearly based around the Canadian program, so I did my New Zealand Level 1 and Level 2 avalanche training in New Zealand, and at the time it was very close to the Canadian program. So, that’s where I did my formal avalanche training, the start of my formal avalanche training, Level 1, Level 2 in New Zealand. That was transferable to the Canadian program because it was so closely aligned. I ended up teaching both in New Zealand and in Canada for both of the avalanche training programs.
Around when, what years, were these Level 1 and Level 2 courses?
I think the Level 1 was probably in the early-90s or late-80s. Level 2 was right around then, in the early-90s. I started teaching avalanche courses in Canada for the CAA in the mid-90s.
So, when you came over to Whistler, were there big differences were between the work you were doing as a patroller in New Zealand and then showing up at Whistler/Blackcomb is pretty massive. It’s the biggest in Canada.
It was a great experience because Blackcomb was the new kid on the block. They were rapidly expanding, and they were building lots of new terrain. So, they were rapidly expanding.
Our avalanche patrol program was really broad, so as a young ski patroller you got a lot of experience. You did a lot of avalanche control, I remember. Every day, particularly in some years, you’d be doing avalanche control pretty much every day of the winter almost, so you got a lot of experience quickly. We were expanding the terrain, and Blackcomb was kind of the new kid.
The management of the ski area and the ski patrol, we were doing lots of new and innovative things, so it was a really fun time, a great time to learn and be in the business, for sure.
Who were some of the people you worked with back then?
One guy that you’ve probably heard of is Wayne Flann, who has a blog. Wango and I worked together. Wayne was the avalanche forecaster, he took over that role really early. I worked with Tony Sittlinger, I might have even hired Tony Sittlinger, who is a long time avalanche forecaster. Some of the new forecasters who are there now; Darlene Douglas, I hired her way back when and now she’s one of the forecasters. It’s pretty neat to see that program is still running and it’s also still innovative. It’s a very dynamic program for sure.
You started at Blackcomb fresh off the plane. Well not fresh off, but you came over from New Zealand. How did you move up there? What were your progress and your responsibilities?
Again, when I arrived at Blackcomb, they’d just installed a bunch of high-speed quads, which was new at the time, so they required the ski patrol to expand. Because we were expanding, we had some changes, so I ended up being kind of the management… I became patrol director there because there were personnel changes and there was rapid expansion and some of the old guard moved on, so there were opportunities.
It was a neat opportunity to start working there, and so I started as a ski patroller, then a senior ski patroller, then the assistant patrol director, and then became the patrol director in the early/mid-90s and did that for a number of years before getting a job at Wiegele’s in the late-90s.
Really, the reason that I got the job at Wiegele’s was because of the CAA. I was a Board member on the CAA by that stage, and I worked with Bob Sayer, who was also on the Board, who was the Director of Guiding, ops manager at time. So, I talked to Bob and said, “Do you have any jobs?” And he said, “We potentially have a job.” So, it was really through the CAA that I changed from being a ski patrol into being a guide.
So you didn’t go through guides training?
I started off at Wiegele’s, and when I started there, I was doing my entry-level CAA training, but I already had a lot of experience in the avalanche business. I was pretty much accelerated through that program because of my background in ski patrol and doing avalanche control and teaching avalanche courses, etc. So, my guide’s training was fairly quick, relatively, because of the experience I already had. I trained and was certified through the Canadian Ski Guides Association.
I want to talk about Blackcomb a little bit more. I remember being a kid growing up, Blackcomb was the ultimate ski destination. I just dreamed of skiing Saudan Couloir. What was it like for you as a patroller managing that terrain, especially earlier on when it was just opening up?
The big thing was we expanded the terrain. We went from places like Saudan Couloir—Chainsaw Ridge as it’s called—did regular avalanche control there. We expanded then to Blackcomb Glacier, because that wasn’t part of the ski area, but then that got included in the ski area, so it was a huge expansion and completely different terrain. In places like Saudan and Bushrat, you could walk along the top and do avalanche control. But all of a sudden you’ve got big overhead hazards, and big slide paths running into a regular ski area. So, that was a new challenge. And having to switch over to heli-bombing, using Aavalaunchers, it was a new challenge for sure.
As a patrol director, how involved were you in the avalanche program?
I still was heavily involved. I was pretty much hands-on almost to a fault, still doing avalanche control and still heavily involved. It was all hands on deck on control mornings, and then once control was done, there was other stuff going on. So, still heavily involved for sure.
So moving on, you end up at Mike Wiegele’s. Were you at Wiegele’s and still doing patrol at the time?
I switched right out, so I left Blackcomb and then went exclusively to Wiegele and worked full time there. It’s a long season. It starts in November and, actually in the late-90s and into the early 2000’s we skied until May. We were still operating in May so it was a pretty long season.
What did you like about guiding?
It was nice to be back on the front lines again as opposed to being in a management role. You ski a lot more. Being the ski patrol director I didn’t ski as much as I would have liked to. It was an opportunity to go back and ski, which is what I really like to do.
During this time you joined the Board of the CAA. How were you involved before that? What brought you into the CAA, and involved in the Association?
As patrol director I was somewhat involved. I remember in the early-90s—I can’t remember the exact year—the first meeting, the first AGM I went to, I went to a meeting in Revelstoke. I wasn’t actually a member of the CAA at the time. I was ineligible because I hadn’t had enough time working in Canada to be eligible to be a member, so I remember being there and being part of the meetings but not being able to go to the actual AGM because I wasn’t a member yet. I think I got a special pass as a guest to go to the meeting earlier on. The next year I was eligible to be a member.
It was quite a small meeting in the local hall there. I thought it was a bunch of really good people and I wanted to do some more work with the CAA, but in a teaching role and also just in a support role.
After that first meeting what was your involvement?
Primarily as a member initially. I was interested in teaching, and it was probably in ‘95 when I taught my first course. I wasn’t really involved in the Board. I taught some courses with some people, and they said, “You should be on the Board of Directors.” Gradually I got my arm twisted. I think a lot of the time at that time you’d be at a meeting, you’d be drinking a beer and someone would approach you and say, “Are you interested in being on the Board of Directors?” And in a weak moment you go, “OK, that sounds good.”
It wasn’t a very organized program. It was fairly relaxed and fairly casual and ad hoc. Elections weren’t really elections. There wasn’t that many Board members. You’d be approached and only just enough people would stand on the Board, as opposed to this year (2022), when there was a
whole host of people as part of the Board elections, which is really healthy and shows a really healthy organization.
Why did you say yes when they approached you?
I thought it would be a good thing to work in the organization and get some experience. It seemed the right thing to do at the time.
What were your expectations going in?
I was pretty new at the whole Board role, so definitely for the first couple of years I was in the background and just listening and watching. My expectations were pretty low.
You didn’t have any big mission or campaign promises to fulfill, or things like that?
No, definitely that wasn’t part of the role for sure. It was pretty low-key.
And I think when I go back to ‘97, the CAA would have been 15 years old at the time and had a staff of four or five people. Alan Dennis was running the show.
Yes, that transition. Alan had been the backbone of the organization really since it was started and eventually, he burned out from that. He did amazing things, but he had run out of enthusiasm for the role, justifiably. He had put his heart and soul into it. He was such a major part of the organization in the early days, for sure. So, I wasn’t directly involved, but it was a challenging time after Alan left to find people that were…. There was a backbone of staff, finding a new Director, and so it was a challenging time for sure.
Hiring… Alan Dennis left in ‘98. You came on the Board in ‘97. What do you remember about the other issues that the CAA was facing in that time?
We were starting to expand, and in a lot of ways. Similar challenges: education, courses, course capacity, demand for courses, trying to keep courses at a reasonable cost, and also trying to keep them contemporary. When I think back, Phil Hein was part of the, at the time it was called CAATS (CAA Training School). He was a major part of that. It was a real challenge in managing those courses. He was kind of like the education guy, so he was really busy doing that and the committees. The Education Committee was a major part of the organization at the time. It was probably the most active committee of any of those committees. They were really very much a hands-on committee, and that was part of the change that happened while I was there.
We went from being quite a hands-on Board to being more of being a governance Board. That was part of the whole, when I was there, changing that from being more hands on—working committees and working board to being a governance board.
So, that was not that exciting, but it was an important part of the organization’s growth. We did the whole visioning session and trying to state what’s the actual reason of the organization for being. Developing the mission statement and vision was a really important part of that growth for sure.
Yes, it sounds like it. We might get into that. I know the CAA Mission and Vision statement was out in 2003, so towards the end of your time on the Board as President.
You joined the board in 1997, 1998. I want to ask you one thing. In 1999 that’s when you had the death two avalanche workers with BC Ministry of Transportation, Al Evenchick and Al Munro. I talked a bit with Bruce Allen about this, but how did that impact yourself and the CAA?
People who worked particularly in highways, like Bruce Allen, for sure were directly impacted. I think people thought the risk to workers wasn’t that much, but that was really eye opening. Then Bruce Jamieson did some work and he said, “When you look at the statistics on average, there’s going to be one avalanche worker killed every year.” That was kind of an eye opener. Jeez, we’re a small industry, 100-something avalanche workers at the time if you take guides. How many people were working and how many people were directly impacted?
That was a big deal, so that was really an eye opener and a wakeup call for the industry to go, “OK, we need to do something about this, to develop better programs to support avalanche workers.” This was a key part of education, and working as professionals, and the risks associated with being avalanche workers, for sure.
Then a year later you somehow fall into position—fall upwards—you became the Vice-president and then Diny (Harrison) had to step down (as President) when (her partner) Clair Israelson was hired. Can you talk about transitioning into that role, and moving up into those positions and finding yourself as the President?
As I say, it was volunteer job. It was a bit of a shock. Traditionally the former Vice president who was before me was Marc Ledwidge, otherwise called slippery Marc, as Diny called him. That seemed like a pretty low-key position. You’re there in the background, you don’t have a specific portfolio. Then all of a sudden being President, you are the direct liaison between the Board and the Executive Director. Clair (Israelson) is a force to be reconned with and he was like a bull. He got a lot of stuff done but sometimes you had to kind of hold the reins as it were, and make sure that he was not running over too many people as he was moving forward. It was a challenging time, but we also did a lot of really good stuff as well.
All the way through to 2003, we had some interesting times. I went to Victoria a few times, and met with Ministers, and was on the phone with Ministers occasionally. Clair just reminded me one time where the current Minister was not that happy with Clair, because Clair sort of stated things as it was. I was on the phone, Clair was talking to the Minister and the Minister said, “I don’t think you’re really representing the organization.” I hadn’t said anything on the line. Then I said, “It’s Bill Mark here. I’m the President of the organization and I totally support what Clair has said.”
The Minister was not happy …. It was pretty entertaining times for sure.
What was that conversation about? No funding or…?
Bill: At the time the Province was not really contributing hardly anything at all towards the public avalanche programs. That was when Avalanche Canada didn’t exist yet. The CAA was still doing that part of it as well. It was really trying to get more stable funding out of the Province for avalanche information.
I find it interesting that the Canadian Avalanche Centre existed. It started in 1990 or 1991, but it wasn’t what it became after 2003. So, in this period, the Canadian Avalanche Centre, was from my understanding is, was managing information …. Infoex, but also doing the public avalanche bulletin. What were the funding challenges you were facing with that?
That was a challenge, because the CAA was doing public information as well, so the Canadian Avalanche Association was doing a dual role. There were the professionals, courses, the membership support; and there was the public bulletins being done. They were divided into sections, but there was a lot of crossover, and it was the appropriate thing at the time. The CAA wanted to support the public avalanche information, but it wasn’t their primary purpose, so we were kind of doing it on the side as it were.
So, we were always trying to obtain funding and that was always a continuous challenge for sure. The Canadian Avalanche Foundation was the cherry part of funding, and so they were really trying to develop funding models as well. It was a bit of a funny relationship between the Canadian Avalanche Foundation and the CAA, and so it gradually worked its way towards Avalanche Canada as the specific public side of it and the CAA as the professional side. That was part of the program that came out of that.
I found it interesting to go through the old issues of the Avalanche News. One had Bryan Adams on the cover after he played at a fundraising concert in Cranbrook for the Canadian Avalanche Foundation. There are a few articles with Justin Trudeau as a young guy who has lost his brother in an avalanche, he was involved. Were you working closely with them?
The Canadian Avalanche Foundation was the primary contact there, so they were working with Margaret Trudeau, and Justin was part of that program. I do remember Avalanche Awareness Days at Lake Louise. Justin was there and we were doing various (inaudible, 34:40) and what happens on a lesser scale. He was there. He was a conduit, and he was already very political then. You could see he was on his way. He was still a schoolteacher in BC at that stage, so it was interesting times for sure.
I’m going to move on to a slightly different topic—CAATS, or the CAA Training Schools. I noticed during the time when you were on the Board the mapping course was started and the blasting course also came around during that period. Do you remember much about developing those courses, or how they came about?
Again, as we were trying to develop as Board members, we were trying to be more arms-length and deal with governance. Those were specific courses that were developed. The blasting course was definitely supported by the industry, so there was good input from the industry. The mapping course was more just a kind of a progression. As time went on, we realized that there was relatively few people that had the mapping experience in relation to avalanches. Peter Schaerer was still involved in teaching those courses and developing that course, which was pretty special.
I was lucky enough to do the course myself, and Peter was a guest instructor, which was always good to have Peter as a mentor and instructor that’s for sure. I feel privileged to have had that.
Another important thing I see that happened during your time as President was the continuing professional development program. Can you talk about how that involved. It feels very central today, but it seems like that didn’t exist in the late ‘90s. How did that get started?
I think it came up as a result of some unprofessional… out of bad comes good. There were a few complaints and concerns about people who were practicing and maybe hadn’t maintained their experience and education. So, that’s kind of where it came from. That program got developed as a result of how can people stay current. So, that’s where the point system really started growing out of that. I think it’s a really important part of any kind of professionalism for sure.
So then you created a point system I guess at that point? What did it look like?
It was fairly similar. I think we looked at other organizations such as nursing etc. that had a point system, and a way of keeping track of what you’ve done as far as maintaining professionalism. We stole from some of the other organizations, engineering as well. We came up with ideas on how the program could be better the avalanche world.
Then you talked about transitioning to a governance board. What did that mean for you and the CAA at the time?
That’s when we started doing kind of Board retreats as it were. We met face-to-face when we could all get together and actually meet together. We had some facilitators with us, and learned about how governance board work.
We hired a couple of people to help us with that. We had some facilitation to develop the vision, so that really helped us steer the course and go, “OK, what is the CAA about and what is really important?” And selling that to the membership as well. I remember doing that at an information meeting at Big Sky in Montana at an ISSW and just talking about the vision and getting buy in from the membership. It was actually really great. People bought into it.
I think we did a good job of letting the membership know in a public information meeting, because we had quite a few members there. It was just a general information meeting. I can’t remember how many people were there, but it was probably somewhere between 75 and 100 people, CAA members at that meeting in Montana. Just about how the Board was trending and how we were focusing on the vision and the organization. People bought in, I think.
Just reading the mission statement that you adopted in 2003. “The CAA is dedicated to bringing the avalanche community together to develop knowledge and understanding of avalanches, facilitate communication, promote professionalism, and provide quality avalanche education.” When you look back on that how did that come about to make that the mission?
We, as an organization had somebody help facilitate and we did all the normal ways that you come up with ideas of what the organization is about. I think it’s still pretty relevant actually. That was in 2003, and we developed it a couple of years before that, but 20 years on, I think it is still pretty relevant, which is great. That’s a good thing.
I look at the vision of that as well—promoting professionalism. Public avalanche safety programs, which is not directly the CAA anymore, but in effect we did do that with the creation of Avalanche Canada. Avalanche education programs and research and development. And value of membership and encourage participation. I think that’s one of our challenges as we move forward is we are still a group of ski patrollers, guides, avalanche technicians, and a few engineers, and maintaining relevancy and participation is a challenge for us for sure. Not making it too complicated. We aren’t all engineers, we’re technicians, we’re practitioners, and not getting too carried away. I think that’s a challenge for us for sure.
That’s what I tell people, especially researchers who write for the Avalanche Journal. Keep in mind your audience range is PhDs and possibly ski patrollers straight out of high school who have not been to university at all and might not have much of an education. You need to be able to reach a pretty big audience, in terms of the people who are involved in this work.
I think that’s for sure a challenge in our organization of not making it too complicated. Becoming a member and going through the process, I was involved in that. I became involved in it, by default, because Joe (Obad) twisted my arm. I was not complaining, but I was concerned that “You are making it too complicated.”
So he said, “OK, be part of the solution then.” So, I became part of the solution, I got hooked up, but I wasn’t super happy with it. It’s like a lot of things. Switch from one side to the other, goes one way and then moves back into the centre where it needs to be. I think we have to continue to strive to be professional in the point of view of doing the right thing, but also make membership accessible. I think the changes that were just made at the meeting here (at the 2023 AGM) were good as far as offering for educators, of creating a membership category for educators. That’s really relevant and I think it was a good thing to do. I’m 100% in support of that.
Before I get into the big momentous event towards the end of your time as President. I want to ask—the office building that I’m in now in downtown Revelstoke that was purchased. Do you have anything to say about buying that?
That was one of these things where we were paying. We needed to expand as the organization expanded, and we were paying quite high rent and we could borrow some cash, and use some of the contingency reserves, and buy a building for a really good price, and then be able to lease some of that back for other parts of the organization at the time. We had the public part of it. It just really made good financial sense at the time, and I think it’s still really good to have that as part of the program now. It was a really smart financial thing to do for the organization. I’m not privy to the exact detail of the finances anymore, but I still think it was a really great move and it’s great to have that asset for the membership and also for the staff. A good place to work. The staff and the organization was the key.
I think we all appreciate being within walking distance to all the shops. That’s great.
I have to get into 2003. Let’s talk about the two major avalanches at Durrand Glacier and in Connaught Creek, with seven people dying, and seven school children, and 29 avalanche deaths that winter. We explored the fall out from that, but from yourself personally, how did that winter impact you personally and then organizationally, how did you face it?
It’s interesting, I was guiding at the time and we had this sick snowpack. It was definitely in our minds, from a working point of view. From the Board point of view, it was probably fortunate that we did have resources in the staff. It was really hard on the staff for sure. They were being bombarded by the media arrivals, TV trucks, and satellite trucks and stuff in Revelstoke. It was media central there, so as a Board we were fortunate we were insulated on that directly fairly well.
Occasionally we would be directly involved, but more we were in the background supporting the staff. The staff did an amazing job on that, of just being the face of that for sure. It was mind changing from the point of view of ours, and it changed—particularly the Connaught Creek one— really changed the face of and the impetus behind everything from ATES to how groups are looked after in the mountains, particularly custodial groups for sure.
Before Durrand Glacier happened that day, do you remember where you were that day, and what your reaction was?
I taught an avalanche course in and around, out of Golden, so I definitely… I arrived, I was just on my way to Golden when that happened, so we were based out of Kicking Horse Resort. It was pretty raw. Some of the ski patrollers out of Golden had attended that. There was still certainly some post traumatic stress associated with that. It was still pretty raw during our teaching course for sure.
Interestingly enough, Durrand Glacier happened and we were in Rogers Pass area teaching an avalanche course at Connaught Creek. We were actually up Connaught Creek weeks before with that avalanche problem that we had, so it was definitely close to home and personal for sure.
Then Connaught Creek happened 11 days later. Where you back at Wiegele’s then or?
Yes, I was back but I had been in that area. I’d been in Connaught Creek with the CAA Level 1 course basically the week before, and so it was definitely eye opening and I felt for everybody involved for sure.
You have the personal emotions but also you have your role as the President of the CAA. What did you think was going to transpire? How did you react in your role as President?
It’s hard to really put that into words because, again, you weren’t the direct face of the media onslaught, but you were definitely in the background supporting. It was tragic and catastrophic. That was the worst year in living memory really, so it was like, “What can we do to make it better?” You can’t instantly make a fix to that sort of stuff, so it continues to be a challenge.
As work progressed, there were public reviews, coroners review, the BC avalanche review. What was your role when all this was happening and moves were being made to start the Canadian Avalanche Centre for public avalanche safety.
Because we had the public bulletin face of the CAA, and then moving that aside and working with the CAA, CAF at the time, which was the Canadian Avalanche Foundation, and developing a program of trying to divide it up. There’s how the intellectual property was divided amongst the organizations, too. There was lots of discussion that went on as to how we were going to make it happen. And again, it was always, and it continues to be a challenge, from the point of view… Stable funding continues to be a challenge for sure for the public programs.
From the professional side, do you think there was any fall out on the avalanche professional side of the CAA, and the work you were doing, and how it was being done?
I think it continues to be, any time there is an incident, there’s always a question of how could we be more professional? Could we educate ourselves better? Could we make better decisions? It’s the nature of the business. It’s not perfect science, it’s not perfect in the human condition. There are all those things associated and all we can do is keep striving to be better at what we do. ut there is no magic pill that we can take, as evidenced by this year as well. We continue to strive to work, to do a better job of managing ourselves in relation to avalanches.
Before I move on to your career with Mike Wiegele, is there anything else with your career at the CAA that you want to talk about?
No. I think the challenges of maintaining the Association continue to be relevant. We’ve expanded and we are a much better organization than we used to be. But we still have to make sure that we look after the foundation of our membership—those ski patrollers, guides, avalanche technicians, and engineers. The focus on that and not get too caught up in the complexities of… We are that group and that is what we’ve got to maintain; looking after that group.
Mike Wiegele. You joined there in ’99, or the late-90s. You’re still there today as Assistant Director of Ski Operations, and Senior Lead Heli Ski Guide. What do you like about Mike Wiegele and the experience there? You’ve been there more than two decades now.
Working with Mike, who passed away a couple of years ago, he was a task master. He had a high level of discipline and that continues to keep me there. I still get to go skiing and I’m fortunate that I get to go skiing with people I know as a general rule, and still make decisions in the mountains, and I still get to be in the mountains. So, that truly is the part of it that I really enjoy: being in the mountains, taking people into the mountains. And I work with a great group of people as well. I work with a tremendously experienced crew. The nature of their personalities is highly varied, but it makes it interesting. Personalities, both guests and guides, it’s a good business to be in, and I feel fortunate to do what I do, that’s for sure.
What keeps the job interesting for you. You mentioned people but are there other aspects?
There’s skiing. It’s a really important part. I get to ski the world’s best power on a regular basis. And it’s not just the skiing, but it’s the decision-making associated with that. Maintaining the discipline to make good decisions and make good choices. I think it’s the combination of those two things that really keeps me engaged for sure.
You mentioned the story about that avalanche that took out the chairlift at the ski hill in New Zealand. Do you have any other avalanche related stories you could share?
No. I try to keep my avalanche stories to a minimum in the guiding. As a ski patroller, you are actively out there seeking avalanches and throwing bombs. That’s probably the only thing I miss about guiding is that primarily my job is avoidance of avalanches. But that’s OK, because I still get to ski and make good decisions.
I try not to have too many war stories in the guiding career for sure.
I want to talk about your work teaching for the Industry Training Program, or I guess back in the day, the Training Schools. You mentioned you got interested in teaching after doing your Level 1 and 2. Do you remember the first course you taught and who it was with?
Yes, I do. It was with Herb Bleuer and Scott Flavelle. Herb Bleuer was a Swiss mountain guide. He’s still around and he was a legend, so I felt very privileged. Scott is still in the business and is a mentor of mine. It’s interesting to work with him. He’s a Heli-Cat Canada inspector as well. It was a pretty great opportunity.
Somebody cancelled and I got to go and be the guy and turn up in Whistler. So, it was in Whistler in the mid-90s with Herb and Scott, so it was a real education, that’s for sure. Pretty neat to have those guys as mentors.
You’ve been teaching courses for close to 30 years now. Have you kept track of how many courses you’ve taught?
Usually on average in the past it’s been about one a year. I think that’s one of the reasons why I’ve taught for so long is because it keeps me sharp in the business. I usually teach a course in November or December. It keeps me on my game, up-to-date with the latest information, and that’s a really important part. So, it’s partly selfish as well that I get to work with great people and be at the sharp end, with lots of inquisitive minds asking questions to challenge you as an educator.
If you are just doing your job it is routine, Teaching course is a really important part to keep you sharp.
Have you seen the courses evolve? What course do you teach now?
During the COVID year, I taught Level 1 and Level 2, but traditionally Level 2s. How have they changed? That’s a very good question. Like the membership, we’ve got to be careful to keep it simple and not make it too complex. The things that haven’t changed are the snow and the terrain, and those two things are what we really focus on. I think probably the thing that’s changed the most is the human factors. The snow and the terrain doesn’t change, but we’ve learned a lot more about human factors and I think that part has changed for sure. More human and team factors.
How else have you been involved with the CAA since you timed out as President?
Just primarily in the background as a Past-president and being part of the Governance Committee, which has just been really in the background. More it’s just been teaching courses and being in the background, and I like that. I haven’t been to an AGM for a while, so it was nice to go to the AGM (in 2023) and support the current Board and their programs as well. It’s kind of nice to see that the Board still has the same challenges of finding the balance between discussion and moving forward, and I like to think that I can help support that process.
Was there a lot of discussion at the AGM’s when you were President?
Yes, there was. When new things come along, people want to have the opportunity to discuss them. But at the same time, we need to move forward. It’s finding that balance of having enough discussion but being able to keep moving forward.
Before I get into my last few questions, have I missed anything about your time or experiences with the CAA, or your career in general in the avalanche industry?
No, I don’t think so. You’ve explored way too much.
OK. The penultimate question: What are the most significant achievements of the Canadian Avalanche Association over the years?
I think the education program has been a really key part of that. The ITP program as it is today is still a really important part of the CAA and I think that will continue to move forward. We’ve just got to keep that momentum going and keep it relevant and keep it practical. Don’t make it too complicated, across the board.
Looking to the future, what challenges do you see that the CAA will face and how do you think the CAA will meet this challenges?
As I’ve already discussed, by keeping that relevant to the membership and keeping our education up to date and not too complicated. I think that’s a continuous challenge for the organization, but I think we’ve got some really good people.
I look at who we’ve got there—the current Board and the current staff. They’ve got to keep that in mind, but really keep it simple. Don’t make it too complicated.
OK, that sounds great. Thanks so much for your time, Bill. I learned a lot.
It’s good to chat.
We’ll see you in future at ISSW or another AGM.
Transcription completed by Susan Hairsine, July 9, 2023